Talk:Zitkala-Sa

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

February 21 to 27, 2021 (8th)

To do to improve

Overall, this article is good. It flows well and very informative, though a bit short for someone as influential as she was. There are two things that can greatly improve this article.

inline citations: There seems to be firm reference list there, but in order to make them more effective, provide inline citations, maybe as "Notes" referencing the work and page, then let the current existing "References" section do the job its doing more effectively.
- as you put in the inline citations and also going back to the references, it may encourage further development of this article (hint, hint).
break the introduction a small yet portion. Probably, one sentence is all that in needed to provide an overall summary of this article, and place the rest within the body of the article.

Keep up the good job, folks! CJLippert 22:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion from Duplicate articles page

from WP:DA:
Zitkala-Ša and Zitkala Sa should be merged and one made into a redirect. Zitkala-Ša is the older and larger article but is an uncommon spelling (Google shows 556 hits for Zitkala-Ša and 12,600 Zitkala-Sa and Zitkala Sa combined). The English alphabet has no diacritic marks so I am unsure if Zitkala-Ša is from a foreign alphabet or if it is a pronunciation guide. 12.74.168.157 20:45, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Asparagus has already turned Zitkala Sa into a redirect. Zitkala-Ša appears to be from the International Phonetic Alphabet guide. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (pronunciation). ~~The article should probably be moved to Zitkala-Sa but would need to be done by an Admim deleting the redirect first, or the history will be lost.~~ Frank101 15:53, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I moved this discussion here. If there are no objections I will go ahead and move Zitkala-Ša to Zitkala-Sa since that page has no history to save. Frank101 15:20, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Pen name?

I've done a little more research. Zitkala-Sa was evidently a pen name adopted by Gertrude Simmons when she started writing. Her mother, Ellen Simmons, had an Indian name, Táte I Yóhin Win (Reaches for the Wind). Did Gertrude also have an Indian name when she was a child? Also, I haven't found her father's name yet. Indications are that he was white and probably of French descent. Frank101 04:13, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A few answers

Hello, I have done extensive research on Zitkala-Sa over the past 2 years. I've read nearly all available scholarship and criticism related to her for an undergraduate honors research project. I'm excited that someone has begun a page for her, and I greatly desire to contribute.

She began to use her pen name after she quit teaching at Carlisle Indian Industrial School and was living in Boston. It first appears with her serialized autobiographical writings in Atlantic Monthly that began in January of 1900. Apparently, she did not have an Indian name when she was a child or, atleast, she did not keep it. Among the available scholarship, P. Jane Hafen is who I would point towards as the authority. Also, Doreen Rappaport's "The Flight of Redbird" is very helpful. Her father was a white man (I prefer Euro-American). Apparently his name was Felker, but his last name was not Simmons. Her mother's English name was Ellen, and she used her previous husband's name for young Gertrude, Simmons. The only available resource on what happened between Zitkala-Sa's (Z-S) mother and father is contained in a letter between Z-S and Carlos Montezuma, an influential Native American doctor who tried his best to court Z-S.

Pertaining to which spelling is more common, the reason that Zitkala-Ša is less common on the internet is probably due to the difficulty of using the diacritic phoneme "Š". Luckily, Wikipedia makes this easy for us. In print, Zitkala-Ša is far more common and it appears in this way in her original publishings. She was probably advised to use the diacritic marking by her friends in Boston. Recent scholarship shows that she actually did have a few ghost writers helping her, but this scholarship is very recent and (I think) has only been presented as a dissertation at a conference. So, I have yet to read the scholarship.

I have researched and written quite extensively on Z-S's life and the Sun Dance Opera. I just graduated with a BA in English Lit. and a BA in Music, so, I think I can help clear the air on a 20th century figure who I greatly admire. Since I have more free time now, I would like to regularly increase the page, but I don't want to run away with the project. JoelRichardson May 18, 2005

"Inuse" tag

I have decided to go ahead and revert my claim that I don't want to run away with the project. I know to much about Z-S to leave it alone. May 22, 2005 JoelRichardson

Consistent Diacritics

I understand why they page was moved to Zitkala-Sa without the diacritic Š, but the article itself jumps between the two -- would it be worth the time to add the diacritic back in to the remainder of the article (since you'd see it in most critical literature anyway)?

Minor Corrections

Earlham College is in Richmond, Indiana not in Richmond, Virginia. It is also a Quaker college, founded in 1857 specifically for Quakers. Zitkala-Sa was one of the first female students, and I believe the first Native American student to attend to the school in 1896. I have seen no articles related to her in the Friends' Archive after 1897, so I am speculative as to whether or not she continued past her sophmore year.

Also, although I am hesitant to make any permenant changes for the time being, Zitkala-Sa is said to have expressed a deep feeling of isolation at Earlham that she never got over while attending Earlham.

All of this can be cited in the Friends' Archive in Lilly Library at Earlham College. The archivist is Thomas Hamm, and he'd be your best bet at obtaining more information since he compiled her folder within the archive. Aaron Mayo April 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.102.3.67 (talk) 00:00, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glaring gap in biography, needs attention

Google's Doodle sent a lot of people to this page today, presumably. Unfortunately, the individual's biography starts out with a weird omission. "Early life and education" begins: Zitkála-Šá was born on February 22, 1876. In 1887 Zitkála-Šá returned to the Yankton Reservation to live with her mother."

Where had she been in the meantime and why?

One of the other commentators on the Talk page appears to know these facts and points to a source or two also, but somebody needs to locate the information in a peer-reviewed source, insert it, and provide a citation. Thanks!

2fennario (talk) 17:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the intervening content was deleted by vandalism here. I have since added the content back, hope everything is good. A bit inexperienced editing wiki but trying to help how I can. Lots of dumb vandalism since being the google doodle, as I'm sure is a common trend. Brightnsalty (talk) 17:55, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2021

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

the information is incorrect 67.6.244.161 (talk) 20:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC) she was a very conservative christain[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 20:20, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This sentence “Her father was a German-American man named Felker, who abandoned the family while Zitkala-Ša was very young.” links to a children’s book. The fourth page is available. There is no mention of this. Indigiwiki (talk) 22:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC) Indigiwiki[reply]

Internal redirect alternative diacritics

The alternative diacritical spelling of her name Zitkála-Šá, which, is also represented in books written in American English, such as the rendering of her name in "When the Light of the World Was Subdued, Our Songs Came Through: A Norton Anthology of Native Nations Poetry" edited by Joy Harjo et al., and as yet does not easily internally redirect here with [[]] notation even though both Zitkala-Sa and Zitkala-Ša do. I'm too new yet to editing Wikipedia to know the proper way to change this, but as of the date of this comment, Zitkála-Šá with linking notation will generate a message saying 'this page does not exist' despite the fact that it indeed does exist. I know there are ways to work around this using the pipe "|" character, but it seems that it would be fairer to allow all three variations to link here if possible. Help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! KnowTheManyHistories (talk) 20:09, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and made the Zitkála-Šá redirect. You can follow the simple directions at Wikipedia:How to make a redirect to do it in the future. Thanks for bringing up this issue. oncamera _{(talk page)} 21:23, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, much appreciated. KnowTheManyHistories (talk) 22:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]