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In order to avoid edit warring, I'm opening a discussion on the appropriate capitalization for Tyler's upcoming album "The Best Is Yet to Come". I originally wrote is in lower case, but chose to correct it after reading The Best Is Yet to Come (disambiguation) and noticing that all articles include a capital "I". The website capitalizemytitle.com also uses Is in title capitalization. This has been contested by another editor, so I would be grateful for a third opinion. Skyrack95 (talk) 16:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello my friend Skyrack95, I hope you are well. Like you, I don’t want to edit war. I don’t really mind being wrong. Perhaps I am. But with title case the verb “is” here ordinarily would be lower case. Moreover, Bonnie Tyler herself gives the word a lower case i on her social media pages, including Twitter. Please see here: https://twitter.com/bonnietofficial/status/1250753821124571137?s=21 It seems reasonable that if the album has a lower case i we should follow suit. Perhaps we could ask for a third editor’s opinion? Either way, I’m not dogmatic. I won’t revert again. Very best regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your cooperation on this. We should endeavour to follow the Manual of Style guidelines as set out at MOS:TITLE, which states that the word "Is" should always be capitalised within a title on Wikipedia. Bonnie Tyler's Twitter page is not subject to the rules of Wikipedia. For example, here, the words "The" and "And" are both capitalised: https://twitter.com/BonnieTOfficial/status/1109014101836161024 but this also technically incorrect within the grammatical rules of titles. Best wishes, Skyrack95 (talk) 17:03, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Skyrack95, we aren’t quite there yet, I think, although I won’t revert again either way. You mention a different album on Bonnie Tyler’s Twitter page. I’m not trying to create a general rule about all her albums. I’m talking here only about how she titles the album being discussed. Thanks again for your collegiality. I really appreciate it. Let’s see what a third editor will think. If there’s no other opinion in a couple of days, I’ll be glad to defer to you. Will that work? With friendly wishes, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve reflected more and done some searching of rules in different style guides (including Chicago, the one I usually use.) I now think you’re right that the MOS should overrule all others when we edit. I’ll go with your opinion and change the page back to your edit. Best regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 17:21, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no source given for the six million figure, but I bet that isn’t close to, say, sales figures of the top ten bestselling singles ever. It’s a vague statement. Does among the bestselling mean the top 50? 100? 1000? Nicmart (talk) 13:02, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia has a page for bestselling singles, and six million is well below the sales of those listed. There may be hundreds of singles that have sold more than 6 million. Nicmart (talk) 13:07, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nicmart, I think you have raised an excellent point. It's worth noting that this line about sales figures was added at a time when "Total Eclipse of the Heart" and "It's a Heartache" were both listed on List of best-selling singles. According to an edit on 18 August 2020, a user decided – rightly, in my opinion – that they should not include songs that had sold less than 10 million as the list had become too expansive.
If worldwide sales are anything similar to the already verified certifications available in the US and select European territories, I don't think it would be a stretch to assume that both songs did sell up to 6 million, but there is currently no way of verifying this. I also suspect that certifications alone would not be enough to allow such statements to be made on Wikipedia. Probably best to just remove that sentence entirely. Skyrack95 (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to avoid an edit war with an IP user who is insisting that Tyler be credited as a singer-songwriter. It would be helpful to reach some concensus with other editors.
I would regard Tyler as a singer, who happens to have co-written a few songs from time to time. She is certainly not known for her songwriting, and as she says in this 2008 interview on The Bat Segundo Show, "I'm not that great a songwriter, to be honest. I co-wrote with people, and I don't do the music part. I just help out with the lyrics."
In the 80s, she is credited as the co-writer for a small number of b-sides. She is also credited as a co-writer on various tracks from her albums Simply Believe (2004) and Wings (2005). She hasn't written anything since then.
According to Wikipedia's entry on the subject, a singer-songwriter "is a musician who writes, composes, and performs their own musical material, including lyrics and melodies." She hasn't written anything of note, and she hasn't written anything by herself. For that reason, I feel it would be better to call her a "singer". There is even a short section of her Wikipedia bio which addresses her short stint in songwriting, and I feel this outlines her songwriting experience adequately.
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