Talk:Colt Single Action Army

Just so you all know

I hope anybody won't mind, but I've combined the Frontier Six-Shooter article with this one, with a couple modifications to the text to make it less redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.148.156 (talk) 22:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I looked up the Frontier Six Shooter in R.L. Wilson's Colt, An American Legend (page 178) and cited it in the article. --Mcumpston (talk) 02:17, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Main title for this piece

As I write this, Colt Peacemaker and Single Action Army are synonyms for this article; the current title Colt Single Action Army handgun is almost certainly not the most common name. I needed to do this change to disambiguate Peacemaker. Someone who cares about this page chould fix it. ---- Charles Stewart 18:26, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The current title seems preferable. Mike Wilson 07:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Could someone include a bit of information on the origin of the name "peacemaker"? I find it sort of strange that the term gets used in the first sentence but never gets explained in the article. I looked a bit online but couldn't find a source on the name. 74.99.18.250 09:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The Colt SAA Mod 1873 was developed in 1872 to replace the so called "Open Top" Mod. 1872 cal .44. The first term used by Colt and the Army to differentiate it from the "Open Top" was "Strap Pistol", strap referred to the solid top-strap above the cylinder. Later, the term used by the factory was "Model "P". Following the adoption by the War Departement, the SAA was advertised for sale by B. Kittredge & Co., Cincinnati as THE PEACEMAKER. (84.227.136.89 11:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC))

Case Volume

"However, because that load pushed the chamber pressure limit of the original 1873 revolvers the government cut the powder charge down to 36 grains (2.3 g) of FFg black powder, which gave the bullet the 800 to 900 ft/s (240 to 270 m/s) muzzle velocity."

Actually the powder charge was reduced because of case design changes. The earlier brass cartridge casings utilized a balloon head design which has a 40 grain case volume. Modern .45 lc cartridges use a different design which is stronger but has slightly less internal volume.

Safety Warning

SAFETY WARNING: From 1973 to present, Ruger has been building 45LC gun on frames able to take 44Mag power levels and slightly higher - the Blackhawk, SuperBlackhawk, Redhawk, SuperRedHawk and "Original Vaquero". Colt also shipped some Anacondas (a large DA revolver) in 45LC. Some smaller ammunition vendors have been selling "45LC+P" where "+P" means "extra pressure", usually marking it "Ruger ONLY" for use in these abnormally strong (for the caliber) firearms. This ammunition will turn an original Single Action Army into a hand grenade, and damage or possibly grenade a modern post-WWII SAA and its clones/near clones. To complicate things further, in 2005 Ruger shipped the "New Vaquero" in .45LC (and .357) on a smaller frame similar to the SAA and unable to take "Ruger ONLY" loads, despite being a Ruger. Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon are probably the biggest vendors of this "45LC" ammunition, with pressures up to 34,000psi. Buffalo Bore has a 325grain load at over 1,300fps in 45LC+P. Do not load this ammunition into a SAA.

The information here is not really relevant to the article, and the safety warning is made redundant by the disclaimers at the bottom of every page. That said, if someone can produce evidence that some of this information is relevant to this article, by all means let him do so. Tenebrous 14:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Its Name

The term "Army" originally referred to the weapon's caliber. Back in the beginning, the U.S. Army liked to order its revolvers in .45 caliber, while the Navy preferred a .36. Thus, the two calibers of revolver came to be known as "Army" and "Navy." It would be great if a knowledgable person would compose a page about the Colt Navy, a great gun in itself. Cranston Lamont 05:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I seem to remember that the Army, and particular the cavalry, preferred pistols of .45 caliber from the supposition that at least this size was required to effectively dispatch a wounded horse! Obviously, not a problem for the Navy. I wish I could reference that fact, but at the moment can't seem to find it. SBHarris 23:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Army usually referred to a .44 caliber and Navy to a .36 caliber, in the cap and ball single action revolvers of the earlier cap and ball golden era that lasted from 1851 until 1873. (The older 1851 Navy with its octagonal barrel was manufactured even after the round-barreled Navy 1861 came out; both were in .36 caliber.) The "Navy" revolvers were as popular as the "Army" revolvers in the Old West. Yaf 05:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Exotic Black Powder?

"..the most exotic being the Black Powder model.." What does that mean? When the Colt came out in 1873 all guns were black powder, including cartridge guns. This bizarre statement makes no sense, so I removed it. If the person chooses to re-add it, please explain what it's supposed to mean.

There are two frame designs for the Single Action Army. The original design used a screw setup to secure the cylinder pin into the frame and are referred to as the "Black powder model". Later versions of the Peacemaker used a different and generally preferred button arrangement. The later version, having been in production much longer, are far more common. (Jeff the Baptist 22:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC))

Rewrite, references and reorganization

I don't mean to co-opt this segment; I'm a newly minted Wikipedian. I notice that this article mentions U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co., as "United States Firearms," would it offend anyone if I changed that to "U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co." and included it in double brackets to link to that page?Newportm (talk) 02:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Being such an important firearm, this whole article needs a rewrite to a more easily readable and organized format. I also suggest separating some of the more detailed information on the .45 Colt round itself, including the discussion on .45ACP, to the already existing article on the .45 Colt Cartridge and include a "see here" link to it.

Some references should also be cited, for example, for the different calibers and years in which those calibers became available. Was the SAA originally produced in .45LC? Reference? Was the original Colt factory designation for the new model the "Peacemaker"? When was it first called the "Single Action Army" and by whom?

I will try to make changes if/when i find pertinent sources on the history of the SAA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.205.138.69 (talk) 06:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

I have several key references on hand and have created a reference section. These books contain credible citation for many of the presently uncited items in this article. Very soon. I will Harvard Parentheses them to the reference section. --Mcumpston (talk) 20:30, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Done. I've found sound citations for most of the material. This material generally appears in any discussion of the SAA and origins are sometimes obscure. For the most part Wilson' material comes from factory records.

--Mcumpston (talk) 17:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Ammunition

The ammunition spends far too much time talking about .45 ACP ammo, which I found darn confusing. I caught myself scrolling up to check if I was actually reading the article I intended, because the first half of the ammo sections spends a large portion of its space chatting about an ammo type that is not related to the peacemaker. Dxco 20:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's because for most of the 20th century, if you said ".45" or even "Colt .45" you were talking about a cartridge not used for this weapon, but rather the cut-off .30-06 used for the .45 automatic pistol or the Tommygun, and formally called the .45 ACP. So some distinction has to be made between this very popular .45 (which is the only one most people know) and the .45 Long Colt of blackpowder days, which was what was mostly used in the Peacemaker. But do feel free to move the paragraphs around or re-size, until you like the result better. Remember, WP:BOLD is the same as WP:SOFIXIT SBH

arris 21:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER The article indicates the words "Frontier Six Shooter" were stamped on the barrel of SAAs in .44-40. In reality, the words were acid etched onto the barrels, something prized by Colt collectors.

Infobox

Someone should add a weapon infobox to this article. I am too unfamiliar with the Peacemaker, aside from what I've seen on a few Wild West Tech episodes, so it might be better for someone else to do it. J-stan ^Talk_Contribs 02:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Transfer Bars/Safeties

) (Undid revision 206168730 by 76.87.17.241 Reversed language about safeties allowing loading of six rounds. The long standing and present Colt SAAs do not have these devices. For a short time in the 2,000s, they did market the Colt Cowboy with a transfer bar safety. It is no longer in the catalog. Uberti, Ruger, Taurus and others do make saas with transfer bars and hammer block safeties and a discussion of those would be appropriate in a discussion of generic single actions rather than the Colt product. --Mcumpston (talk) 14:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

A character in the Metal Gear series exclusively uses the Colt Single Action Army in battle and earns the moniker Revolver Ocelot because of this. In Metal Gear Solid he refers to the revolver as "the greatest handgun ever made."

video games

"A character in the Metal Gear series exclusively uses the Colt Single Action Army in battle and earns the moniker Revolver Ocelot because of this. In Metal Gear Solid he refers to the revolver as "the greatest handgun ever made."

This may be as relevant as mentions of hollywood westerns or elmer keith so, I didn't rever it. I admit to some prejudice about video game references as that particulary brand of epistemology, in the absence of actual performance data seems to result in a lot of misinformation about the actual form, function and performance of a variety of firearms. discussion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcumpston (talk • contribs) 00:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC) --Mcumpston (talk) 00:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

TV Goof!

n MASH epsiode 4/13 "The Gun" HOulihan ids the gun Frank Burns stole as a Colt single action .45 cavalry gun {Peacemaker}. In fact it is a .45 revolver from the 1920's! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.174 (talk) 01:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

"Safety" information/liability

There's no such thing as a "safety" position on most 1873 Colts and it's extremely inadvisable to leave the Peacemaker at half-cock/quarter-cock/three-quarters-to-tuesday/whatever. The article seems to imply that there is a safe position to leave the hammer in other than down and on an empty chamber/cartridge. This is not correct and this implication should be excised asap. J.M. Archer (talk) 19:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Reproductions

I'm just wondering if there should be a section on "Reproductions", acknowledging the vast number of modern reproductions of the Colt Single Action Army? Not necessarily a comprehensive listing, but I'm sure lots of readers wonder why Colt, Ruger, US Fire Arms Co, Armi San Marco, and countless others produce handguns that are, for all intents and purposes, Colt Single Action Army revolvers (albeit with modern manufacturing and safety features). Commander Zulu (talk) 11:29, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

.44 RF

I read: By 1875, 15,000 units chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge had entered service (?) along with an additional 1863 chambered for the .44 Henry rimfire cartridge (Wilson 1985.)

That's wrong. The .44 RF SAA's never entered (US) service.

My proposition: By 1875, 15,000 units chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge had been sold to the army and the civil market, along with an additional 1863 chambered for the .44 Henry rimfire cartridge

--hmaag (talk) 13:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

USFA US Pre-War ?

USFA US Pre-War redirects here... what does it mean ? Kintaro-san (talk) 13:50, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a question

With most revolvers (at least, with swingout revolvers), the ejector rod is below the barrel and is exactly in the middle. However, with SAA and a the Lightning they're off to the side a little bit. I understand that the SAA isn't a swingout revolver but why is the rod off to the side? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElbowLick (talk • contribs) 05:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The loading gate is on the right side of a Colt SAA frame; thus, the ejector rod is biased to the right. Think about it. If the ejector rod was centered underneath the barrel, the hammer would block the exit of an ejected case. -D.E. Watters (talk) 12:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I forgot you had to manually eject each cylinder on these. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElbowLick (talk • contribs) 06:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Eject each cylinder? huh? As far as I know, these, at least genuine colts (others do come with them), do not come with extra cylinders. The cylinder is what revolves to align chambers/cartridges with the barrel and firing pin. And they are removed not ejected, and then usually for cleaning, or maybe for extremely safe, probably long-term, storage. Whatever you mean by ejecting each cylinder. Keserman (talk) 15:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I meant each chamber. My bad. ElbowLick (talk) 17:20, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Expiration of the Rollin White Patent

The US patent laws of this period allowed protection for 14 years, with the possibility to renew for 7 years. Rollin White tried to renew it, but the Government (President Grant) refused . Source: A study of Colt Conversions 1997 ba Bruce McDowell, ISBN 0-87341-446-2 Page 15. hmaag (talk) 14:00, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Colt Clones

Is it correct and necessary to mention manufacturers of Colt Clones in the head of the Colt-article and some of them for a second time under Legacy? Perhaps for publicity? Great Western Arms Company, Ruger, Beretta, Freedom Arms, USFA, Cimarron, F.LLI Pietta and Uberti. -- hmaag (talk) 12:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, however maybe in the lede section all that needs to be mentioned is that it has spawned numerous copies/clones, etc. Greater detail can be given in the body of the article, it seems out of place that the lede should contain Ruger, Uberti, etc. --Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 13:27, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Lawrence of Arabia

I deleted the section that suggests T.E. Lawrence used a Colt SAA in a confrontation with a highway bandit early in his travels, before his World War I exploits. This is a myth. In his recent expansively vast biography, "Hero," Michael Korda explains that, while the incident with a bandit not being able to figure out the firing mechanism of Lawrence's pistol (therefore being unable to use it against Lawrence) did occur, it was most likely with a Mauser C96- which it is documented Lawrence carried on these early travels- not a Colt Single Action Army. The placement of the Colt in this Lawrence of Arabia myth, Korda suggests, was probably offered to entice American readers, later following Lawrence's life. At the time of the attack, Lawrence was a young English college student studying archaelogy at Oxford on one of his first journeys to Mesopotamia. It would have been extremely unlikely that such a person would be in possession of an American-made Colt handgun- which would have been both very expensive and very exotic, considering Lawrence's station in life at the time. Korda, Michael. (2010) Hero Harper Collins. p. 174 Slodo2001 (talk) 18:26, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Lt-Col. Lawrence carried a Mauser on his pre-war travels as a student. He is believed to have carried a Colt 1911 .45 automatic, not a Single Action Army revolver, during the Great War. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/telawrence.htm https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/11/23/the-arab-revolt-and-the-guns-of-lawrence-of-arabia/ Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:45, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Gun barrel steel type?

Need info on where to find out what type steel for the early models predating chrome/moly or stainless. High carbon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.34.196 (talk) 23:31, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Is the picture of the 1873 model accurate?

I noticed that the handle in the picture is stamped 1883 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Colt_SAA_US_Artillery_RAC.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.58.158.236 (talk) 21:14, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Its an original Cavalry grip inspected and stamped 1883, used later on an altered "Artillery" SAA. -- hmaag (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

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"The great equalizer"

Why does the great equalizer redirect here? The term is nowhere mentioned in the article. 134.130.182.31 (talk) 06:36, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Battle of Britain

The article includes a photo of a Colt SAA apparently ordered by the British purchasing commission in 1940; the same image appears in the article on the Home Guard, but neither article mentions it in the text. Google throws up lots of copies of that image but not much else. Was the Colt SAA really issued to the Home Guard in 1940? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 16:57, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

No, the British bought a small number of those revolvers for trials in 1940 but didn't then place a large order for them. They ordered a great number of Smith & Wesson .38s instead. Khamba Tendal (talk)

Orphaned references in Colt Single Action Army

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Colt Single Action Army's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Jones":

• From Second Boer War: Jones 1996
• From Pakistan: Adam Jones (2004). Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction. Routledge. p. 420. ISBN 978-0-415-35384-7.
• From .38 Special: Jones, Richard (2009). Jane's Infantry Weapons 2009–2010. Jane's Information Group. p. 621. ISBN 978-0-7106-2869-5.
• From M1911 pistol: Jones, Richard (2009). Jane's Infantry Weapons 2009–2010. Jane's Information Group. pp. 896, 897, 899. ISBN 978-0-7106-2869-5.
• From Malta: Jones, Huw R. (1973). "Modern emigration from Malta". Transactions of the Institute of British Geographers. 60 (60): 101–119. doi:10.2307/621508. JSTOR 621508.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 15:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 23 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 16:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

---

Colt Single Action Army → Colt single-action army revolver – Not a PROPERNAME and not capped consistently (or even named very consistently) in independent sources. See, e.g., Kansas Historical Quarterly and Time. Per MOS:CAPSACRS, Wikipedia does not use caps merely to indicate the letters used in an abbreviation. Also proposing to insert a hyphen in "single-action" per MOS:HYPHEN and add "revolver" for clarity and WP:NOUN. (Note that the infobox heading already includes "Revolver".) — BarrelProof (talk) 16:33, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Strong oppose - "Single Action Army" is in fact the proper name. It is the model name, abbreviated SAA, and specifically capitalized and not hyphenated that way by the manufacturer (see here). Just because it is not consistently titled so by news outlets does not change that fact. - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:07, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

NOTE: I have removed the misplaced "revolver" from the "model name" parameter in the infobox... - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:31, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Oppose - as per above. --Surv1v4l1st ^{▌Talk|Contribs▌} 16:04, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

M1873

I have a colt 45 un1925 pat 1871-72 cylinder and pistol have matching numbers and trying to get more info on the single action revolver any help would be greatly appreciated 2600:1004:B16A:A91B:34A0:9582:964A:6147 (talk) 23:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Additional source for ===Engraving===

Due to potential COI, posting this suggestion for an additional source citation under ===Engraving=== here, to accompany the existing citation from Wilson 1985, pp. 148–151. The new additional citation seems relevant as it lists the selling price of a first-generation factory-engraved SAA at $17,975.00 (item #21 in the list).

Colt engraved about one percent of its first-generation production of the Single Action Army revolver, which makes these engraved models extremely rare and valuable with collectors. LoVeloDogs (talk) 22:21, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

References