Talk:Túpac Amaru Revolutionary Movement

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Reynard2077. Peer reviewers: Eschimia, RitaC99, Shahrozzaman.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Berenson, bias, and NPOV

The part on Lori Berenson is biased. She may have done what the article says she did, but she was convicted only after a show trial and she still claims innocence.

This is far from NPOV as the source is "http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/tupac.htm From: Patterns of Global Terrorism, 2000. United States Department of State, April 2001". This would be one thing to consult but how about consulting a pro-MRTA source as well? --user:Daniel C. Boyer

Looks pretty neutral/factual to me despite the source, unless you think they are larger, do have leadership skills, there has been no infighting, or Peru hasn't been successful. Rewrite if you like.

-- User:David Levinson

Here is one example: there is evidence that the Fujimori regime killed MRTA fighters who attempted to surrender at the embassy, and that Peruvian soldiers mutilated MRTA bodies, &c. The regime attempted to prevent the corpses from being exhumed. --Daniel C. Boyer

The Truth and Reconciliation Comission, while criticizing the MRTA, did have some good things to say about them:

"In 1984, the Movimiento Revolucionario Túpac Amaru (MRTA) initiated its own armed struggle against the State. MRTA is responsible for 1.5 percent of the victim deaths that were reported to the TRC. Unlike Shining Path, and like other armed Latin American organizations with which it maintained ties, the MRTA claimed responsibility for its actions, its members used uniforms or other identifiers to differentiate themselves from the civilian population, it abstained from attacking the unarmed population and at some points showed signs of being open to peace negotiations."

This article doesn't seem to reflect any of that -- Descendall 07:49, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Agreed. I just added the whole paragraph to the article. MRTA did not indiscriminately killed or terrorized civilians as Shining Path did--AAAAA 11:39, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've changed this to a direct citation. -- Viajero 12:31, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well now. Now I'm worried it might be biased in the other way, as I sort of selectivly quoted the TRC. The rest of the paragrah is as follows:

Nevertheless, MRTA also engaged in criminal acts; it resorted to assassinations, such as in the case of General Enrique López Albújar, the taking of hostages and the systematic practice of kidnapping, all crimes that violate not only personal liberty but the international humanitarian law that the MRTA claimed to respect. It is important to highlight that MRTA also assassinated dissidents within its own ranks.

Should the entire thing be added? In any event, the English version of this part of the report can be found at http://www.cverdad.org.pe/ingles/ifinal/conclusiones.php -- Descendall 11:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I just added it.--AAAAA 12:20, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Much improved. Could we have a footnote leading to the relevant quote on the TRC's report? Should we move this to Túpac Amaru Revolutionary Movement? Is Lori Berenson an MIT graduate or did she just do a couple of semesters there (the point was squabbled about over on her article at some point)? So many questions... –Hajor 13:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Canto Grande jailbreak

Does anyone have any information about the big MRTA jailbreak from the Canto Grande prison around 1991 or so? --Eric Forste 22:06, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was in 1990, and the only source I know is the book Tunnel to Canto Grande, 1996, Curbstone Press, Willimantic CT. This book is very detailed but is definitely not NPOV, since it takes a strongly pro-MRTA stance. ISBN 1880684349

According to the book, the official name of the prison broken out of was not Canto Grande but the Miguel Castro Castro maximum security penitentiary.

Correct. Casto Castro Prison is in the Canto Grande area of Lima. It goes by both names. --Descendall 03:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

MRTA Flag

Does anyone else think that the image of the MRTA flag on this page kind of sucks? Most of images I have seen of the actual flag have stripes of the same width, not two thin red strips and one thick white one. See [1] [2] [3] [4]. I think it's pretty clear that the MRTA is a civil Peruvian flag defaced with the MRTA logo. --Descendall 20:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey! New flag! Nice. --Descendall 20:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Guerrilla?!

I am peruvian, so maybe I am bias, but we do consider the MRTA as a terrorist group. If you don't wanna take my word just read the definitions, both from wikipedia:

Terrorism is the intentional use or threat to use violence against civilians and non-combatants "in order to achieve political goals". Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat in which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics in the form of ambushes and raids to combat a larger and less mobile formal army.

And the MRTA certainly aimed civilian targets, you can read it here

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-World-Insurgency-and-Terrorism/Movimiento-Revolucionario-Tupac-Amaru-MRTA-Peru.html

http://www.faqs.org/cia/docs/11/0000393913/TUPAC-AMARU-REVOLUTIONARY-MOVEMENT:-GROWING-THREAT-TO-US-INTERESTS-IN-PERU.html

Thi one is in spanish

http://www.reporterodelahistoria.com/2006/03/historia-del-presente-mrta-un.html

So I am gonna switch its definition. Paranoidhuman (talk) 03:38, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

As for "violence or threat of violence against civilians" the article states, MRTA "abstained from attacking the unarmed population" and gives reference.

You could of course cite a broader definition of terrorism, one of using "violence or the threat of violence against anyone (not just civilians) to gain political goals" and this definition is often used too. That definition would still apply to MRTA, despite "abstained from attacking the unarmed population" However that broader definition would apply not only to the foreign policy of most countries today, but also to individuals/organization such as Gorge Washington. I think both definitions are important..but the more narrow one of targeting civilians is important - it applies to Sendero (but not, according to the article, to MRTA) Harel (talk) 01:32, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

"Role: Terrorism"

While not a fan of armed revolutionary groups any more than of repressive regimes, I noticed that:

• 1. The article itself notes that the US state department no longer listed MRTA as terrorist, starting 2001, while still putting "role: terrorist" in the right box

and more importantly, as far as Wikipedia policies, that

• 2. Look at the entry for the Provisional Irish Republican Army lists "leaders", "strength", "origins" and "opponent" for it (and for the Continuity IRA which split off from it) and nothing else. The other group that split off from the Provisional IRA is the real ira which does have an extra entry, "type" and the "type" is listed as "paramilitary" not "Terrorist" despite its being considered terrorist by more than a few countries. This makes sense: The Real IRA commits terror and is listed as an organization which commits terror, but their role is indeed a paramilitary organization.

In light of 1. and 2. is seems that POV leaning is the only reason the "role: terrorism" given to MRTA and not to IRA, even more ironic in light of item 1. since the real IRA was not de-listed from 'terrorism'. I do not visit this page often, since MRTA is not a significant concern to me (while citizens of all countries receiving a fair unbiased trial, e.g. L.B. is important to me) so perhaps someone else can remedy this (if accuracy and consistency standards are important) Harel (talk) 01:48, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Sir, if USA still or not classifies the MRTA as "terrorist" is irrelevant, here in Peru this organization is clearly defined as a terrorist organization, therefore, it should be called in that way. This article is not about the North-american POV about this terrorist organization, it's about its facts. Greetings.--Ian (CloudAOC) | ^Talk 19:10, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

You are simply incorrect in thinking that the narrative voice of the article on English wikipedia must comply with the official policy of the Republic of Peru, which is why I am going to edit. --Descendall (talk) 08:26, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Indigenous Movement?

Hi folks. The name of the group implies that it is an indigenous movement, but the article doesn't mention whether it is or isn't. It would be helpful to say "this is an indigenous movement because...." or "despite its name, it is not an indigenous movement because..." or "it started out as an indigenous movement, but later..."

I'm not arguing one way or the other. I came here to find out for myself. Since the information isn't listed, I'm suggesting that someone with more knowledge or someone that knows where to find authoritative sources on the subject can update the article. Thanks for your consideration! --Lacarids (talk) 01:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Stated Goals of MRTA

I am looking to do some research to try and identify what MRTA's stated goals were when they formed. There seems to be a good record of what they actually did, but I see limited information about what their stated objectives were. I'm thinking it belongs in the 'Origins' section, which right now claims it drew membership from a few preexisting leftist groups but doesn't offer a source. these seem like important details to include in addition to operations conducted by MRTA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reynard2077 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

some sources I aim to look at and see if I can use: Broooke, James. “The Rebels and the Cause: 12 Years of Peru’s Turmoil.” The New York Times, Dec. 19, 1996, https://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/19/world/the-rebels-and-the-cause-12-years-of-peru-s-turmoil.html

McCormick, Gordon. Sharp Dressed Men: Peru's Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement. Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, 1993. https://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R4276.html

Peru: Information on the "Movimiento Revolucionario Tupac Amaru" (MRTA), https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6aaae27.html,. Accessed on 17 Oct. 2019.

Dietrich, Martha-Cecilia. "Pursuing the Perpetual Conflict: Ethnographic Reflections on the Persistent Role of the “Terrorist Threat” in Contemporary Peru." History & Memory, vol. 31, no. 1, 2019, pp. 59-86. OhioLINK Electronic Journal Center, rave.ohiolink.edu/ejournals/article/361483735.

Lust, Jan. Capitalism, Class and Revolution in Peru, 1980-2016. Palgrave Macmillan, Lima, Peru, 2019. https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-3-319-91403-9

Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA). “Neo-Liberalism and Globalization.” Globalization and the Challenges of a New Century: A Reader, edited by Patrick O’Meara et al., Indiana University Press, BLOOMINGTON; INDIANAPOLIS, 2000, pp. 282–286. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt2005tk7.28. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reynard2077 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Updated map

I found the map on this article to be messy, hard to look at and rushed. So, I have created what I believe to be a better version while retaining the feel of the map with the same colour scheme etc, if you want to use it here it is: https://imgur.com/a/KSao90U — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:6B89:F01:F912:31C1:21F1:16FA (talk) 18:55, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Feedback

I think some citations are definitely needed, especially in the "Origins" section. However, I would reframe the whole section by addressing how Tupac Amaru inspired the revolutionary movement, how his ideology is reflected in the goals of the movement and their political standing. I also agree that the goals of the movement should be detailed in the article as I am sure information on that is readily available. I would also make sure to include more scholarly sources in the discussions of the origins of the movement as these seem to lack in the current bibliography. I would also include a discussion of gender if possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RitaC99 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree with the need to look more into the basis of their formation, but I believe it should be done in the wider context of Peruvian history which ultimately lead to the formation of this militia. Furthermore, the article should be more cohesive and straight to the point, especially in the summary section. Shahrozzaman (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Revsion Memo: So far, I have added a section that discusses the Ideology of the MRTA. in this section I discuss the official messaging from the group as well as the the historical origins of Peruvian Marxism and Peruvian nationalism. Secondary sources supported this reading of the MRTA's materials, and I noticed several parallels myself. I also added some information on the MRTA's operations. this has proved difficult, as I have found conflicting reports of when the group formed and what their first attack was. I also added a note in the introduction about the withdraw of the US terrorist organization status as likely connected to the prosecution of US citizen Lori Berenson. in the Trials & Convictions section, I moved the information about Berenson to the end, since she was not a member of MRTA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reynard2077 (talk • contribs) 14:35, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Víctor Polay Sentencing

This article states that he was sentenced to 32 years imprisonment in 1992, the ”Victor Polay” article however (in regards to the 32 years imprisonment) states the year of sentencing to be 2006; it is hard to decipher though, as he appears to have been apprehended in 1990, so he very likely had an earlier sentence or maybe it was finalized by the highest court (or he ran out of ways to appeal) in 2006? Not familiar with peruvian law though, eg 32 years might be the maximum punishment, so he could have been sentenced to it more than once. 79.138.18.26 (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

…or maybe the sentence was upheld in post-Fujimori courts? As seems to be the case with Lori Berenson. (Also he was apprenhended in 1992 and not 1990 as I previously claimed) 79.138.18.26 (talk) 17:00, 16 July 2022 (UTC)