Talk:Cheyenne

Population

Can someone please update the Northern Cheyenne population. it reads as 3542 in the combined population total and is referenced as 9945 in the text.. thnksThe Northern Cheyenne Tribe reports 9,945 enrolled tribal members as of 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seger77 (talk • contribs) 07:34, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Fixed using the Northern Cheyenne website as source Jonpatterns (talk) 10:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Washita River

Could the author of this great page PLEASE take a look at the account of the Battle of Washita River. It is an absolute disgrace, (it relies on Custer's own account!) and I think you are obviously the best one to sort it out. Thanks. User:86.128.122.91 01:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you write something? There have been 30 to 40 contributors to this article.

WikiDon 02:03, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I changed title 18 century/Indian Wars to 19 century/Indian wars because it seemed to me that it is about 19. not 18. century since all years mentioned are 18XX which means 19 century. I don`t know much about native american history so maybe I got something wrong, please check it and revert my edit if I was wrong

...

Cheyenne patricia carmen ortiz

Is this the full title of the Cheyenne nation, or just a mistake? Gyre 01:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Number of Deaths at Sand Creek

It is my understanding the number of Deaths was more like 400-500. This number was later altered to about 30 to hide the obvious guilt of the parties invilved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.32.6 (talk) 04:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

400 to 500 was an exaggeration made by Chivington. About 200 is more real. Fred Talk 01:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Cheyenne and Arapaho

This article doesn't state that the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes are currently united as a single nation? That's a serious omission. Badagnani 21:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It is and the whole question of how to write the two articles Cheyenne and Arapaho is difficult. Fred Talk 01:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

For anyone looking for the article, it's at Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes. -Uyvsdi (talk) 00:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

The Cheyenne and Arapaho Nation does not exist. The ceremonial ways are totally different and there has never been a Cheyenne/Arapaho Cermony. The US government put them on the same reservation because they were afraid of an uprising by the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne Tribe of Oklahoma hold there own separate ceremonies and are the Southern part of a greater United Cheyenne Nation. The omission is not serious as Arapahos are a totally different nation that include their Northern Arapaho brothers of Wyoming. seger77@hotmail.com 17:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems to have been restored now, which is good. Fred Talk 01:07, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

"Custerwest" disrupting Washita article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Washita_River

See talk page and history. He dissmisses the official American Military History[1] as "a simple website, it's not serious", removes all the findings of CMH (because "The army center of military history isn't filled of military historians about the Washita.").

He also calls me "the idiot"[2], and "jerk", "Damn...jackass", "ignorant monkey", "damn idiot", "stupid bastard", and threatens to "kick" my "damn ass". [3]. If someone cares enough to get him blocked, thanks. Also, one would check his other edits, if any. --HanzoHattori 19:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Cheyenne article..."are a plains" group

I believe this native American group migrated out onto the plains from Minnesota area. Needs corrction. 66.224.2.131 (talk) 22:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

That is true (as the article states), but they left Minnesota centuries ago, following Erect Horns' vision. They have exemplified Plains Horse culture for the last two centuries, and today both Cheyenne tribes are located on the Plains: Montana and Oklahoma. -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:57, 12 May 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Pronounciation

As an Australian, I had no idea on how to pronounce the name of this people properly until I consulted with an American friend. Initially I though it must have been Chain-knee, like the former Bush administration vice president. I have meant no disrespect in my edit to the front page to include the prononciation "Shy-Anne" and I believe this will aid international visitors to the wikipedia site. Please correct my pronounciation if incorrect, or even add the international pronounciation symbols, but please don't simply revert my post, I believe it to be a valuable contribution to the front page.60.240.14.140 (talk) 15:24, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Continued contentious reverting from Isaac Rabinovich

User Isaac Rabbinovich seems to be edit warring and reverting his edits in simply for the sake of reverting. This is not constructively editing the article so much as it is looking for trouble. The drive-by tags he is adding, with no explanation here on the talk page, are requesting information on dates that are already given in practically every section of the article INCLUDING the lede section. Therefore I removed them once with this explanation. Adding them in a second time seems like willful obtuseness. I am tired of reverting this editor's continued messing with this article. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 00:46, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Will keep an eye on this page. Just tried to clean up a lot of redundant and some speculative statements. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Requested move 2 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved No consensus for the move in this discussion. Plus there is considerable inconsistency in NA tribal related articles--many use only the TRIBENAME and many use TRIBENAME People. Per Maunus below, no clear rationale has been given to move this one to the other side of inconsistency. Mike Cline (talk) 14:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

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Cheyenne → Cheyenne people – people. Relisted. Favonian (talk) 22:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC). 76.120.164.90 (talk) 20:01, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

And what would happen to "Cheyenne"? Would it redirect to the article on the people or would Cheyenne (disambiguation) be moved there? —  AjaxSmack  00:59, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I would suggest a disambiguation page.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

• If moved, replace with disambiguation page -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 03:37, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
• Recentlym however the Great Native American Move War of 2014 resulted in a kind of consensus that the indigenous groups are the primary topics for their names and that consequently we don't need to have "X people" articles, they should be located directly at X. So unless there are special reasons that the Cheyenne ethnic group should not be considered the primary topic of Cheyenne then I think it is best to leave it.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:44, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support - I don't see evidence that the people are primary over the city in Wyoming. I think there is no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:53, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support but keep the redirect - the city, while the capital, is not a very important town at all. Red Slash 23:47, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support only if the disambiguation page is moved to "Cheyenne" (but I have opinion on whether it should be or not). Otherwise, oppose as unnecessary. —  AjaxSmack  01:28, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose – Unnecessary disambiguation. The present title is adequate, and more WP:CONCISE. Leave well alone per WP:TITLECHANGES. Let's note that WP:USPLACE dictates that "Place, State" is required for locales, meaning that Cheyenne, Wyoming shall always be as it is, meaning that there is no need to worry about that. A hatnote should suffice. RGloucester — ☎ 02:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per RGloucester, knowing that Cheyenne is more popular for this particular concept. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 05:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per Maunus and RGloucester. The town in Wyoming is fine where it is, and this is best where it is. - CorbieV^☊ 20:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support with moving the disambig page. Cheyenne has many important meanings that need to be disambiguated. 2620:0:1000:157D:7522:8BA:AC49:BE47 (talk) 17:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cheyenne/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Linguistics article, separate tribal article needed. As with other linguistics-written pages, I'm of the firm conviction they should all have more lay content, rather than just technical discussions/descriptions. Skookum1 - May 9, 06 The article appears much better now, and it has been split into Linguistics and Tribe. Needs more information about demographics & current history. Phaedriel - July 11,06

Last edited at 07:08, 17 May 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 11:27, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Indigenous peoples in Minnesota

How are they indigenous peoples of the Great Plains if they lived in Minnesota when first contact was made? Did they not get pushed into the plains by the expansion of the whites, offsetting the previous inhabitants in the process (who would thus have a greater claim to being indigenous to the Great Plains)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.244.59.122 (talk) 00:16, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

After Erect Horns' vision, they completed changed their culture from farming to horse culture and became Plains tribes. Many tribes move and change their cultures throughout history. Yuchitown (talk) 14:28, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cheyenne Indians (baseball) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:21, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cheyenne (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:03, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Historical Cheyenne bands

I'm moving the historical band listings from the article here just in case anyone wants to do anything with them, such as consolidate, summarize, or cite them. Yuchitown (talk) 14:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I think they should be merged onto their respective reservations for the Northern and Southern Cheyenne, which I'll do.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 09:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Northern Cheyenne bands

Known in Cheyenne either as Notameohmésêhese or Notameohmésėhétaneo'o meaning "Northern Eaters" or simply as Ohmésêhese / Ôhmésêheseo'o meaning "Eaters".

• Notameohmésêhese / Notameohmésėhétaneo'o proper ("Northern Eaters", also simply known as Ȯhmésėhese / Ôhmésêheseo'o or Omísis – "Eaters" - They go by these names because they were known as great hunters and therefore had a good supply of meat to feed their people. They were the most populous Cheyenne group, inhabiting land from the northern and western Black Hills (Mo'ȯhtávo'honáéva – ″black-rock-Location″) toward the Powder River Country (Páeo'hé'e – ″gunpowder river″ or ″coal river″). Often they were accompanied by their Totoemanaho and Northern Só'taeo'o kin and had through intermarriages close ties to Lakota. Today they, along with the Northern Só'taeo'o, are the most influential among the Northern Cheyenne.
• Northern Oévemanaho / Oivimána (Northern Oévemana – "Northern Scabby", "Northern Scalpers" - They now live in and around Birney, Montana (Oévemanâhéno – ″scabby-band-place″) near the confluence of the Tongue River and Hanging Woman Creek in the southeastern corner of the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation)
• Northern Só'taeo'o / Só'taétaneo'o (Suhtai or Sutaio - They married only other Só'taeo'o (Northern or Southern alike) and camped separate from the other Cheyenne camps. They maintained closest ties to the Notameohmésêhese band and lived in the northern and western Black Hills (Mo'ȯhtávo'honáéva – ″black-rock-Location″). They also roamed together with their Notameohmésêhese and Totoemanaho kin in the Powder River Country (Páeo'hé'e), remaining north of the Platte River. They gained higher band numbers than their southern kin because of better Northern hunting and grass. They now live in and around Birney, Montana (Oévemanâhéno – ″scabby-band-place″). Today they, along with the Notameohmésêhese, are the most influential among the Northern Cheyenne.

Lesser northern bands (not represented in the Council of Forty-Four):

• Anskówînîs / Anskowinis ("Narrow Nose", "narrow-nose-bridge" - They are named after their first chief, properly named Broken Dish, but nicknamed Anskówǐnǐs. They separated from the Ôhmésêheseo'o because of a quarrel.
• Moktavhetaneo / Mo'ȯhtávėhetaneo'o (Mo'ôhtávêhetane – "Black skinned Men", "Ute-like Men" They are named this because they had darker skin than other Cheyenne and looked more like the Utes. Their name also means ″Mountain Men″, maybe descended from Ute (Mo'ȯhtávėhetaneo'o) captives. They live today in the Lame Deer, Montana (Mo'ȯhtávȯheomenéno – ″black-lodge-place″) district on the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation. Lame Deer, the tribal and government agency headquarters, was also the place where rations were given out and is known as Meaveʼhoʼeno – ″the giving place″ or ″giving-whiteman-place″.
• Ononeo'o / Ononeo ("Arikara People" or ″Ree Band″) - This band is of mixed Cheyenne-Arikara and Mandan heritage. They were formerly associated with the mixed Cheyenne-Lakota Masikota band and sometimes considered a Masikota subband. today they live in the nonofficial Rosebud/Ree district (Ónoneo'o), politically part of the Muddy Creek district, between Busby and Muddy Creek, some are also present in the Lame Deer district)
• Totoemanaho / Totoimana (Totoemana, Tútoimanáh – "Backward Clan", "Shy Clan" or "Bashful Clan", also translated as ″Reticent Band″, and ″Unwilling Band″, so named because they prefer to camp by themselves, lived in the northern and western Black Hills (Mo'ȯhtávo'honáéva – ″black-rock-Location″) and along the Tongue River (Vétanovéo'hé'e – ″Tongue River″), roamed together with their Notameohmésêhese and Northern Só'taeo'o kin also in the Powder River Country (Páeo'hé'e), had through intermarriages close ties to Lakota, now centered in and around Ashland, Montana (Vóhkoohémâhoéve'ho'éno, formerly called Totoemanáheno) immediately east of the boundary of the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation)
• Vóhpoométaneo'o / Woxpometaneo (Voxpometaneo – "White River People", ″White River Cheyenne″) Named for the White River (Vóhpoome) near Pine Ridge in South Dakota and also named after a large extended family as Wóopotsît or Wóhkpotsit – "White Wolf", ″White Crafty People″. The majority joined their Cheyenne kin and settled in 1891 south of Kirby, Montana near the headwaters of the Rosebud Creek. They are now centered in and around Busby, Montana (Vóhpoométanéno) on the Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation. Some stayed on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation with their Oglala Lakota kin and are known as Tsėhésė-ho'óhomo'eo'o – ″Cheyenne-Sioux″.

Southern Cheyenne bands

The Southern Cheyenne are known as the Heévâhetaneo'o, or "Roped People." They are named after the most populous band, also commonly known as Sówoniá or "the Southern People."

• Heévâhetaneo'o / Hevhaitaneo proper (Hévhaitanio – "Haire Rope Men", "Hairy People", also ″Fur Men″) In the past they were close affiliated to Arapaho. Known as great warriors and noted among the Cheyenne as the best horse tamers and horse raiders from surrounding tribes, especially from the horse-rich Kiowa (Vétapâhaetó'eo'o) and Comanche (Šé'šenovotsétaneo'o) to the south. They formed in 1826 under their Chief Yellow Wolf (Ho'néoxheóvaestse) together with some Arapaho. They migrated along with some other Cheyenne bands south of the Platte River (Meneo'hé'e – ″Moon Shell River″) toward the Arkansas River (Mótsėsóoneo'hé'e – ″Flint River″) and the establishment of Bents Fort. Their tribal lands were between the Southern Oévemanaho in the west, the Wotápio in the east and the Dog Soldiers and Hesé'omeétaneo'o in the north. The Cholera Outbreak of 1849 killed many of the band. About half of the band perished in the Sand Creek Massacre, including the chiefs Yellow Wolf and Big Man. They are today predominant among the Southern Cheyenne.
• Hesé'omeétaneo'o / Hisiometaneo (Hisíometanio or Issiometaniu – "Ridge People/Men" or ″Hill Band″, also given as ″Pipestem (River) People″) Originally part of the Heévâhetaneo'o, they had close ties with the Oglala and Sičháŋǧu (Brulé) Lakota. They first lived just south of the Masikota along the Niobrara River north of the North Platte River in Nebraska, then later moved south into the hill country along the Upper Smoky Hill River and north of the Upper Arkansas River in Colorado – in lands mostly west of the closely associated Southern Só'taeo'o and Dog Soldiers band and north of the Southern Oévemanaho and Heévâhetaneo'o, ranged sometimes with Comanche south onto the Staked Plains. Under chief White Antelope, many died in the Sand Creek Massacre.
• Heviksnipahis / Iviststsinihpah ("Aorta People" or "Burnt Aorta People"; as caretakers for the Sacred Arrows, they were also considered as the Tsétsêhéstâhese / Tsitsistas proper or known to the other bands as ″Arrow People″) Originally living along the forks of the Cheyenne River and in the eastern Black Hills in western Wyoming, they moved between 1815 and 1825 south to the forks of the North and South Platte River (Vétaneo'hé'e – ″Fat River″ or ″Tallow River″). Their lands were a central location for all bands and convenient for the performance of the annual ceremonies. Later, they moved further south and ranged between the Dog Soldiers band in the north, the Oo'kóhta'oná in the southeast, the Hónowa and Wotápio in the south.
• Hónowa / Háovȯhnóvȧhese / Nėstamenóoheo'o (Háovôhnóva, Hownowa, Hotnowa – "Poor People", also known as ″Red Lodges People″) They lived south of the Oo'kóhta'oná and east of the Wotápio.
• Southern Oévemanaho / Oivimána (Southern Oévemana – "Southern Scabby", "Southern Scalpers") Originally part of the Heévâhetaneo'o, they were close affiliated to Arapaho and moved together under Chief Yellow Wolf in 1826 south of the Platte River to the Arkansas River. They lived south and west of the Heévâhetaneo'o. Led by War Bonnet they lost about half their number in the Sand Creek Massacre. They now live near Watonga (Tséh-ma'ėho'a'ē'ta – ″where there are red (hills) facing together″, also called Oévemanâhéno – ″scabby-band-place″) and Canton, Blaine County, on lands of the former Cheyenne and Arapaho Indian Reservation in Oklahoma.
• Masikota ("Crickets", "Grasshoppers", ″Grey Hair(ed) band″, ″Flexed Leg band″ or ″Wrinkled Up band″) Named perhaps from the Lakotiyapi word mazikute – "iron (rifle) shooters", from mazi – "iron" and kute – "to shoot", mixed Cheyenne-Lakota band. They were known by the latter as 'Sheo', lived southeast of the Black Hills along the White River (Vóhpoome), intermarried with Oglala Lakota and Sičháŋǧu Oyáte (Brule Lakota) and was the first group of the tribal unit on the Plains. Hence their name First Named. The cholera epidemic of 1849 almost wiped them out. Afterwards they joined the military society Dog Soldiers (Hotamétaneo'o), which took their place as a band in the Cheyenne tribal circle. They were not present at the Sand Creek Massacre. They played an important role at Battle of Summit Springs of 1869.
• Oo'kóhta'oná / Ohktounna (Oktogona, Oktogana, Oqtóguna or Oktoguna – "Bare Legged", "Protruding Jaw") Their name refers to the art of dancing the Deer Dance before going to war. They formerly associated with the mixed Cheyenne-Lakota Masikota band, sometimes considered a Masikota subband. They lived north of the Hónowa and south of the Heviksnipahis,. The cholera epidemic of 1849 almost wiped them out. They might have joined the Dog Soldiers afterwards.
• Wotápio / Wutapai (from the Lakotiyapi word Wutapiu: – "Eat with Lakota-Sioux", "Half-Cheyenne", "Cheyenne-Sioux") They were originally a band of Lakota Sioux who later joined the Southern Cheyenne. By 1820 they had moved south to the Arkansas River in Colorado, where they lived and camped together with their Kiowa allies. Through intermarriage they became a mixed Cheyenne-speaking and identifying hybrid Cheyenne-Kiowa band with Lakota origin. Their hunting lands were between the Hónowa in the east, the Heévâhetaneo'o to the west, and the Heviksnipahis to the north. They were the band hardest hit by the Sand Creek Massacre.
• Southern Só'taeo'o / Só'taétaneo'o (Suhtai or Sutaio) They married only other Só'taeo'o (Northern or Southern alike) and always camped separately from the other Cheyenne camp. They maintained closest ties to the Hesé'omeétaneo'o band, joined with the emerging Dog Soldiers band lands along the Smoky Hill River (Mano'éo'hé'e – ″gather(timber) river″), Saline (Šéstotó'eo'hé'e – "Cedar River") and Solomon Rivers (Ma'xêhe'néo'hé'e – "turkey-creek"), in north-central Kansas. Their favorite hunting grounds were north of the Dog Soldiers along the upper sub-basins of the Republican River (Ma'êhóóhévâhtseo'hé'e – ″Red Shield River″, so named because there gathered the warriors of the Ma'ėhoohēvȧhtse (Red Shield Warriors Society)) especially along the Beaver Creek, which was also a spiritual place. The Hesé'omeétaneo'o mostly ranged west and northwest of them.

Lesser southern bands (not represented in the Council of Forty-Four):

• Moiseo / Moiseyu (Monsoni – "Flint-Men", called after the Flintmen Society (Motsêsóonetaneo'o)) They were also called Otata-voha – "Blue Horses", after Blue Horse, the first leader of the Coyote Warriors Society (O'ôhoménotâxeo'o). Both were branches of the Fox Warriors Society (Vóhkêséhetaneo'o or Monêsóonetaneo'o), one of the four original Cheyenne military societies, also known as ″Flies.″ Originally a Sioux band from Minnesota, the greater part left the Cheyenne about 1815 joining Sioux bands in Minnesota. The remaining associated strongly with / or joined the Wotápio.
• Ná'kuimana / Nakoimana (Nakoimanah – "Bear People")

The ten principal bands that had the right to send four chief delegates representing them in the Council of Forty-Four were the

1. Heviksnipahis (Iviststsinihpah, also known as the Tsétsêhéstâhese / Tsitsistas proper)
2. Heévâhetaneo'o (Hevhaitaneo)
3. Masikota (in Lakotiyapi: Sheo)
4. Omísis (Ôhmésêheseo'o, the Notameohmésêhese proper)
5. Só'taeo'o / Só'taétaneo'o (Suhtai or Sutaio, Northern and Southern)
6. Wotápio (Wutapai)
7. Oévemanaho (Oivimána or Oévemana, Northern and Southern)
8. Hesé'omeétaneo'o (Hisiometaneo or Issiometaniu)
9. Oo'kóhta'oná (Ohktounna or Oqtóguna)
10. Hónowa (Háovȯhnóvȧhese or Nėstamenóoheo'o)

After the Masikota and Oo'kóhta'oná bands had been almost wiped out through a cholera epidemic in 1849, the remaining Masikota joined the Dog Soldiers warrior society (Hotamétaneo'o). They effectively became a separate band and in 1850 took over the position in the camp circle formerly occupied by the Masikota. The members often opposed policies of peace chiefs such as Black Kettle. Over time, the Dog Soldiers took a prominent leadership role in the wars against the whites. In 1867, most of the band were killed by United States Army forces in the Battle of Summit Springs.

Due to an increasing division between the Dog Soldiers and the council chiefs with respect to policy towards the whites, the Dog Soldiers separated from the other Cheyenne bands. They effectively became a third division of the Cheyenne people, between the Northern Cheyenne, who ranged north of the Platte River, and the Southern Cheyenne, who occupied the area north of the Arkansas River.

References