Talk:Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith

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On 5 June 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith. The result of the discussion was Speedy moved.

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Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by when more than 6 sections are present.

Archive of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

I do agree that this article should be merged. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is clearly the direct descendant of the Roman Inquisition. One must also consider the Holy Office, as it was called between 1908 and 1966.

I have added an article on the archive of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Whilst it is at present only open until 1903 (and I do not believe it will be opened further even in the long term), the fact that much information has come out of the record between 1542 and 1902 should certainly warrant an article under the title above.

Question

Among the most known punished priests are Maciel,..

That link goes to a disambiguation page. The only likely candidate on that page is Antônio Conselheiro. I do not know the background well enough to confirm that this is the intended reference. That page does give some indication of disagreement with the formal religious organisation, but does not give sufficient detail to confirm that this is the person who fell foul of what would at that time have been the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition. Can someone who knows the original intent review the link in question and if appropriate replace the link to the disambig page with a direct reference?--Shoka 16:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. -- Cat Whisperer 16:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Cannot get a reference to a sub-sub section to work. There is a reasonable discussion of Fr Tissa Balasuriya (Sri Lanka) to fix the next redlink, but I can't make a link to that sub sub section work. Help appreciated.--Shoka 16:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Robert_Nugent_Lynch looks like a candidate for the next redlink. Again confirm or deny?--Shoka 17:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Different Nugent. The section on Balasuriya is a bullet, not a sub-sub-section, so there is no way to link to it directly without changing the target article Heresy in the 20th century to use triple equals "===" instead of bullet "*". -- Cat Whisperer 17:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Country does not point to a definition of a catholic country but to a list of countries by catholic population. I was expecting a definition. What was that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.255.224.10 (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Need a separate article on just what the dickens a Notification from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is

There are lots of articles in Wikipedia which reference a Notification from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (without the wikilink), as if the rest of the world would know what that is. Could somebody with more competence in Roman doctrine please do us the honor of explaining; and then maybe throw in a handful of wikilinks where they would do the most good, including in this article itself? --Orange Mike | Talk 19:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have definined "notification" on this page. I don't think that a separate article is needed. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 01:02, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute about transition date (July 1 versus July 2)

Catholic Hierarchy confirms Ferrer took over on July 1. As shown here.[1] 2601:447:4101:B820:24FC:35F0:61FB:2CB9 (talk) 14:35, 7 July 2017 (UTC) Also confirms that Muller resigned the same day as well.[2]2601:447:4101:B820:24FC:35F0:61FB:2CB9 (talk) 14:35, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Hierarchy is not a valid source. It is the unedited work of a single person. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:37, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bmclaughlin9 is absolutely correct that Catholic-hierarchy.org is not a reputable source.

Müller's term was scheduled to end on July 2. On July 1, the pope informed Müller that his term would not be renewed. No source suggests that there was a firing or resignation on July 1 which took effect immediately.

[3] says Müller is leaving "at the end of his five year mandate", and Ladaria has been "called to succeed him."
[4] Pope is "taking advantage of" the July 2 term ending.
[5] Pope Francis "informed Müller ... of his decision not to extend the mandate." Later, Müller talked to Meisner "about the non-prolongation of his previous office".

I don't endorse every statement in these articles; some are written from a very partisan perspective. But they show no indication that Müller resigned one day before his term ended, or that Pope Francis fired him one day before his term ended. And even if that had happened -- which it didn't -- Ladaria's term would still have begun July 2, with a one-day vacancy between them. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 20:33, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And see this in La Croix Internationale where Müller says: "On the very last day of my mandate as CDF prefect, the pope informed me within one minute of his decision not to prolong me." Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 09:41, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated the text, using the La Croix source you supplied. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 22:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but David Cheney, who operates Catholic Hierarchy and other various Catholic websites, is someone with better inside knowledge than the many news outlets. "The last day of my mandate" is also not at all the same as saying he let him stay one more day. The story's claim that his term officially ended on July 2 was also poorly written. The Pope is the still the head of Church and the appointment for the Prefect is not like the appointment of Bishops who wait for ordination.68.47.65.239 (talk) 16:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd take you more seriously if you didn't delete a perfectly valid citation because you didn't like it. I couldn't care less about the date, but even a very smart person who runs a personal unedited website isn't a proper source. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:07, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid David Cheney vs Cardinal Mueller on this one.2601:447:4101:B820:D507:68D:4ED4:4734 (talk) 19:16, 10 July 2017 (UTC) I complied with request to not delete the website. Like I had typed before, the story was poorly worded.2601:447:4101:B820:D507:68D:4ED4:4734 (talk) 19:21, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Did more research and it turns out the five year term limit policy is even questionable.[6] Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral, but censoring things like that the words of a parish volunteer who writes unsanctioned info about the Church on websites, and yet has not been debunked by the Church throughout all his years of doing this is not at all neutral.2601:447:4101:B820:D507:68D:4ED4:4734 (talk) 19:31, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's a discussion of whether or not Francis has been or will be consistent in limiting people to just one five-year term. No one in that article disputes that Müller had a five year term. You're grasping at straws.

Thanks for not deleting citations. They're citations, not websites.

You added the word "allegedly", but that doesn't help the reader. Wikipedia has a good way to handle this sort of dispute. I'll add that code in a minute. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 19:50, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

End date. Perhaps we can discuss the actual dates of a five year term. I think I've seen only one source (Clarín, cited above in translation when the issue was whether or not Müller resigned) that says July 2. Are there any other good sources or parallels to guide us? (I exclude Catholic Hierarchy and gcatholic and FIU, however expert their owners.) Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 21:20, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic News Service (in CRUX) has whose five-year term was to end July 2

Edward Pentin in National Catholic Register Cardinal Müller whose five year mandate as prefect expires on Sunday. (July 2)

Gerard O'Connell in America is perhaps less clear was due for reconfirmation in that position on July 2

A secular source, NPR Mueller's five-year mandate, which comes to an end on Sunday

A non-secular source, Vatican Radio Cardinal Müller’s term as Prefect officially expires on July 2nd. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2601:447:4101:B820, you wrote: "Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral, but censoring things like that the words of a parish volunteer who writes unsanctioned info about the Church on websites, and yet has not been debunked by the Church throughout all his years of doing this is not at all neutral." You are misusing the word "censoring". If a newspaper is writing a story about Napoleon, and five professors of history at Harvard tell the reporter that Napoleon was born in 1769, but a high school history teacher tells the reporter that Napoleon was born in 1768, the reporter should report what the Harvard professors said. This doesn't mean that the high school teacher is being "censored."

Bmclaughlin9 and I have given sources from Vatican radio, NPR, many respected Catholic newspapers representing different ideological schools (National Catholic Register, Crux, and America in the United States; La Croix in France; Passaeur Neue Presse in Germany, Clarin in Latin America) -- as well as the Vatican's website and a statement by Cardinal Müller himself. You have given a single amateur website run by David Cheney as your source.

Wikipedia's policy is that multiple reliable sources are preferred over a single source. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 23:28, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an aside... I emailed Cheney to suggest that Müller's departure should not be labeled "resigned", but "ceased". He's made the change. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 14:24, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Joseph Ratzinger.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:01, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy moved consensus was clear (non-admin closure) Bettering the Wiki (talk) 01:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith → Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith – The Apostolic Constitution Praedicate Evangelium is active. Bettering the Wiki (talk) 05:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support - with implementation of Pope Francis' curial reform the new name of all curial departments is Dicastery.... Gugganij (talk) 11:53, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support and speedy move: it is since today the official name. No RM was needed according to me, the user should have moved the page to the new name without consulting. Veverve (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes absolutely not in the least controversial. I agree the move should have been made without consulting. Rutsq (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support - with an auto forward from the old title (since it will take a while for folks to adjust their searches). Dcheney (talk) 19:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wait: The English page of the Vatican website has not yet been updated with the new "dicastery" name. Wikipedia should hold off until the transition has been implemented; As an aside, it was absolutely appropriate to have a move discussion so that potential issue might be brought to light. –Zfish118^⋉talk 22:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Zfish118: it has been updated, it is now called "Dicastero per la Dottrina della Fede" in Italian. Veverve (talk) 22:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My position is specifically we should match the English website, which has NOT been updated as June 6, 2022. –Zfish118^⋉talk 22:28, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vatican News has been using "Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith" consistently. Rutsq (talk) 09:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Holy Office

In phrases like "perform the holy office", I don't know if that's only the Mass (liturgy), some synonym of Sacrament, or includes other things but that other sense of the term (whatever it is exactly) needs to be in the dab hatnote far more than some random movie. — LlywelynII 08:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect you mean the Liturgy of the Hours. Sometimes called the Divine Office in US English, but more commonly just called the Office. Dcheney (talk) 00:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]