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I think the Italian leader should be changed to Victor Emmanuel III since he was King of Italy for the whole duration of the war. Orlando was only Prime Minister for about the last year of the war. Also, since both British leaders are listed,
I also think that Charles I of Austria should also be listed since Franz Joseph I died about halfway through the war. Does anyone have any thoughts? 2601:84:847F:2DF0:8C37:7D5:223:722 (talk) 23:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So based on this policy, it seems Yoshihito for Japan should be removed as well because he is not mentioned in the article anywhere. Alexysun (talk) 22:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IAR comes with caveats. Without the body of the article evidencing why the a commander/leader was key or significant, the reader has no idea why a particular person appears in the infobox. The caveats of WP:IAR would not be met. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You should only ignore rules if you have a good reason. We're saying the rule exists for a good reason and you don't have a better one, unfortunately. Remsense诉02:57, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We should stop restricting certain people from being on the infobox because of the article and instead add certain people to the article so they can be on the infobox. In no way am I saying that random people can be added to the article and as a result be added to the infobox, but people significant to the war, such as Victor Emmanuel III, should be added. That way we can have Italy's actual leader instead of a general like Cadorna who's placement alongside the other allied leaders is very out of place. BrickIsGone (talk) 23:54, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to improve the balance of the article, that's great. The issue is an overfixation by editors on the infobox without care for how it's meant to summarize the article. Remsense ‥ 论00:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto. But we don't go putting the horse before the cart. Furthermore, the article should evidence how they were key and significant and not just a passing mention that they held a particular position. Cinderella157 (talk) 00:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Adding the actual leaders to the article in a meaningful way that shows how they were important, so that they can be put on the infobox. BrickIsGone (talk) 14:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would remove all commanders and leaders from the info box. The info box is meant to be the highest level summary of key information. It isn't meant to present complex and disputed information. Wikipedia:INFOBOXPURPOSE. The very fact that we have knowledgeable editors disputing who were the most important commanders and leaders for most belligerents indicates that this is a matter of opinion. Where are the citations from reliable sources supporting each of the people included? For example, the consensus of historians is that Hindenburg and Ludendorff were the real leaders of Germany during WWI so why aren't they top of the list in the info box? We either have no commanders and leaders in the info box or we have a section in the article on commanders and leaders with full citations which then can be summarised in the info box. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My position has been that the article (and how often an individual is mentioned) indicates who should be in the infobox. But this and other parameters in the infobox are optional. I don't have a problem with your position either - ie that (in this case) it is too complex for the infobox to simplistically capture. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Following the successes at Verdun, Nivelle was promoted to commander-in-chief of the French armies on the Western Front in December 1916. Slatersteven (talk) 11:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And he was later removed from command in May 1917. At the very least, adding Joffre or Foch would suffice, as they were commander-in-chief for longer periods of time. Cesspool135 (talk) 15:59, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Far from it. Nivelle could be included in a more detailed list, but he should absolutely not be considered most important/consequential Frenchman in the war. Cesspool135 (talk) 17:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clemenceau would make more sense, if the paragraph was edited to mention him his role in the the latter part of the war andaswelleas Treaty of Versailles, then he could be added to the infobox. BrickIsGone (talk) 20:46, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Clemenceau would make some sense. I am also starting to think that it would be best to just link to the lists of Allied and Central Powers leaders instead of constantly arguing over who should be in the infobox. Cesspool135 (talk) 21:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue goes back to the first conversation, the list is a bit of a mess, we list nonmilliary leaders, but no generals (such as the UK). Military leaders but no political leaders (such as Italy). Slatersteven (talk) 14:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just think that a separate article would do a better job of explaining than just the infobox. And since there are so many people who could be considered "leaders" of their respective countries, it would be best to avoid arguments and compromise by listing them all on a separate page. Cesspool135 (talk) 15:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Said articles already exist, I am simply asking for them to be linked in the "leaders" section of the infobox (and that nothing else be listed there). If I get permission to make the edit I will do just that. Cesspool135 (talk) 19:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could it be a good idea to split off the military leaders to a separate article? That gives more room for the changing commanders and space for a better recognition of the military leaders per front. The Bannertalk22:59, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See my comments above. It would be a better idea to start with a sub-heading on Commanders and Leaders in this article. If the section got too big it could be then split off. That's the usual procedure. In the meantime, the Commanders and Leaders section of the info box should be removed because it is unsourced, disputed and there are no clear criteria for inclusion and exclusion. Another good idea would be to merge the three ongoing Talk threads on this issue. However, I don't have the technical expertise to do so. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Georges Clemenceau should be listed under commanders and leaders. Yes, one could argue that a military commander (such as Nivelle) should be listed instead, but by that logic we would have to replace a lot of the leaders with military commanders (for example, Woodrow Wilson would have to be replaced with John J. Pershing). For the pages about the individual theaters, the military commanders make more sense. But political leaders and heads of state make more sense for the page about the entire war. (I also believe that the same should be done with Italy.) And if Clemenceau isn't on there because he isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, then add him to there. He was a significant morale booster who played a significant role in the final years of the war, I'd argue more than Poincaré. Clemenceau advocated for the unified allied command and was a major architect of the Treaty of Versailles, and so much more. Overall Clemenceau's role in World War I, should be listen in the article so that he can be listed as leader of France on the infobox, and not Nivelle. BrickIsGone (talk) 18:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article says "Operating as a separate unit for the first time, the Canadian Corps' capture of Vimy Ridge is viewed by many Canadians as a defining moment in creating a sense of national identity", accompanied by a photograph of a Canadian tank and soldiers at Vimy. DuncanHill (talk) 13:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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