Talk:UEFA Champions League

2024/25 Format

Shouldn't the Format section be updated to reflect the 2024/25 format? For example, there will be 36 teams in the league phase, not the 32 as in previous years. https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/028a-1a386150ed4b-322dff667686-1000--2024-25-uefa-champions-league-who-is-in-the-european-perfo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by BouleyBay (talk • contribs) 13:36, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

I echo the above. I came to this page to get more information about the league phase, but it isn't here yet. For some reason, the above has neither date nor 'signature' so it might only have been added a few minutes ago. I'm not accredited to amend this page (reasonably!) and maybe the anonymous writer of the above is not either.Nick Barnett (talk) 10:36, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I added some information about the current format. Did the best I could. Rpo.castro (talk) 16:55, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2024

In the section labeled "League and knockout phases" change "Teams below 25th place" to "Teams finishing 25th place and below"

See https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post-2024-everything-you-ne/ and scroll down to section labeled "How will teams reach the Champions League knockout phase and will the format for the knockout phase change?" Tracyd18 (talk) 20:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

 Already done ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Title count in the list of winners

@Miria~01: Regarding this, infobox-type tables should be minimalistic. At its point in time, every championship is worthy on its own, while the historical title count is secondary. The answer to the question "Who won the Champions League in 1998?" is simply "Real Madrid did", whereas saying "Real Madrid did it for the 7th time" is more informative than required. --Theurgist (talk) 19:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Even with this additional information, the table is very minimalistic. There are no over-specific details, so I actually think the reason for deleting it is exaggerated. It seems to me that this is more of a case of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT.

Here are some examples of tables where this additional information (count of titles win) is also provided.

• European Golden Shoe
• List of English football champions
• List of Bundesliga top scorers by season
• List of Grand Slam men's singles champions

Miria~01 (talk) 20:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

What is the problem with having the number of titles achieved by any team until that season? That is informative and is very common to have here in other sport related tables. This information on the tables provides easy access to that information without having to go through all the prose that might not even have that information detailed. Rpo.castro (talk) 20:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I already explained what I'm seeing as the problem: that information is too specific for that table (it's not in the otherwise much more detailed list of finals), and also presents each title as part of a sequence, rather than allowing it to stand out on its own. --Theurgist (talk) 23:16, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I still don't understand your point. I understand what you are writing but that doesn't make any sense to me. "that information is too specific for that table" By whom? Now we have some rules "that information is to much for this table?" and second argument I can't see how another table in a different article not having some information means that this table can't have it either. I see no connection. It would be easier if you would answer to my and Miria~01 arguments about the usefulness of that information (is there other place in the article where this is easy accessible?) or the comparison with other sport articles. Like Miria said this looks more WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Rpo.castro (talk) 10:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

The rules against unnecessary informativeness are the Gricean maxims, and specifically the maxim of quantity, which basically says: "Say what is needed, nothing more, nothing less".

Clubs like to brag about their historical tallies, and indeed some titles, like Real Madrid's 10th title or any club's 1st title, receive some special attention by virtue of that, but ultimately, from a synchronic viewpoint, a title is a title is a title. And this is what a table like this one should care about. --Theurgist (talk) 00:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Are you joking right? Do you know read Gricean Maxims (which are any rules) or did you just google something looked like it could support your POV? Its not Real Madrid bragging about their titles, its everyone, press included saying x club won xth title. All press was speaking about "La Decima". Some are remarkable like 10th, 20th which allows you to carry a special badge or allowing you to keep original trophy. Its not information without relevance to the subject nor its information that is available in other section of the article and its a very very tiny addition to the table. I get you don't like it. Rpo.castro (talk) 08:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

We have this information in several articles and also the same type of tables. Your argument is very subjective and not particularly strong. In the end you want to remove something informal just because it bothers you. You can also denounce every little thing according to your argument... for example, the national flags next to the clubs. Miria~01 (talk) 11:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I was well aware of the Gricean maxims, as languages and linguistics is my other main interest in Wikipedia beside football. I did admit that La Décima was remarkable, but I still think that, for the most part, a title's number in the sequence is not a defining characteristic of the title. In navigation boxes that also seek minimalism, such as Template:FIFA World Cup winners and Template:Ballon d'Or recipients, you don't see parenthesized numbers after every mention of Brazil, Germany, Messi, or Ronaldo. On the other hand, a club's national affiliation is a defining characteristic of the club, so I'm not proposing removal of the flags. And we're here to build an encyclopedia – so, yes, if I consider something not encyclopedic enough, it bothers me. --Theurgist (talk) 22:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I didn't mean to suggest that you were in favor of removing the flags. It was actually just meant to be a sarcastic exaggeration to "Do not make your contribution more informative than is required" in Grice's maxims.

I would make a distinction between navigational templates and tables in articles. Like @Rpo.castro, I see the benefit of the parenthesis, not only so much as an achievement for the clubs, but also as a time-based navigation. However, there would have to be more participants in this regard to reach a consensus, as the same type of float winners table is also used in other sports, as I happened to see:

• Cricket World Cup
• ICC Champions Trophy

But as already mentioned, many articles, especially lists, use the parenthesis to count the titles

• e.g. for top scorers: List of La Liga top scorers; List of English football first tier top scorers etc.

Miria~01 (talk) 00:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Maximum number of teams per country

There is the statement: "While only the winners of many of Europe's national leagues can enter the competition, the top 5 leagues provide up to four eligible teams."

Sure a country can have more than 4: Germany and Italy are represented by 5 teams each this year. But what is the maximum? Can 4 teams qualify based on their league positions, a 5th one by having won the Champions League the previous season, a 6th one by having won the Europa League, and a 7th one via the European Performance Spots, all from the same country? Or is there a limit? I couldn't find this in the current rules, can anyone help? --Theurgist (talk) 21:35, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

There used to be a cap of 5 teams per country until this season (let's say England had 4 spots, and UCL and UEL winners were english teams outside top-4, in this case, the qualified teams would be UCL TH, UEL TH, N1, N2 and N3. N4 would play EL.)

Since this season three isn't any mention to a cap in any regulations so in Champions League a country can have 4 teams through ranking, plus UCL TH, UEL TH and and extra spot from EPS (yearly ranking), meaning 7 spots.

This topic on kassiesa football forum can't be used as a source but I think you will find it useful. Rpo.castro (talk) 11:36, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I reworded it thus: "... the top 5 leagues by coefficient provide four teams each by default, with a possibility for additional spots based on performance during the previous season." I also updated the references.

I think 7 teams is too extreme a case to be mentioned directly. In chess, you may be able to have nine queens by promoting all eight of your pawns – but that's ludicrous. --Theurgist (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)